Another moron who doesn't get Ben.

[wineshard]

Brees is the only reason the Saints are watchable. He could win a Super Bowl if he was on a team with a better defense.

Too bad he got traded off of the Chargers....guess we will never know.

[wineshard]

10 years from now the people that had him on their fantasy league and won championships will remember him, I guess that counts for more than no one.

And this is why Dan Marino is remembered.
http://www.danmarino.com/Stats.aspx

Man, looks like Marino was the ultimate fantasy quarterback, eh? But sure, keep ignoring that Brees is probably the most likely QB to ever break Marino's single season records, which in your opinion is the reason why Marino is so respected.

That, the 9 probowls, the career TD's, having more than 1 playoff victory in his first 9 years despite no defense or running game.....etc..etc...

[Steeler7588]

What do you think?

I think Brees is much better. But since Brees isn't Marino, based on your own words, I'd have to think you would go with Eli.

...having more than 1 playoff victory in his first 9 years despite no defense or running game...

Since nothing else you mentioned contradicts my point that on the surface, Marino just looks like a crazy good fantasy player (and I think he's one of the top 3 QBs of all time), I figured I'd look at the only thing you mentioned that does to your original premise: winning.

1983, 0-1, #1 defense
1984, 2-1, #7 defense
1985, 1-1, #12 defense
1990, 1-1, #4 defense

Looks like the only time Marino sniffed playoff success in his first nine years was when he had a pretty good defense. Imagine that.

[gut]

I love these guys:

The Marino Mythology

[wineshard]

Looks like the only time Marino sniffed playoff success in his first nine years was when he had a pretty good defense. Imagine that.

Yeah, Imagine what Drew should have been able to do in '05 with the #13 D and the #5 O....but yet they went 9-7. You would think that if he is as good as you say he is, he could have gotten at least into the playoffs. Dan won a playoff game with the #12 defense in '85.

[Steeler7588]

...10 years from now no one is going to remember Drew f#@&ing Brees... BTW, how many playoff games has Drew Brees even won?

Word.

[Dwinsgames]

Brees is the only reason the Saints are watchable. He could win a Super Bowl if he was on a team with a better defense.

[zulater]

Brees is the only reason the Saints are watchable. He could win a Super Bowl if he was on a team with a better defense.

So where was I wrong? The defense was better this season and he won a Super Bowl.

Regardless, I don't recall you predicting a Saint's SB win in September.

[Master Blaster]

Who cares? They won. The Steelers not making the playoffs is a far bigger issue to discuss. Apparently no one cares to discuss the Senior Bowl, the upcoming combine or the draft as it relates to the team. It's been like a morgue in this site since the season ended.

[Dwinsgames]

Brees is the only reason the Saints are watchable. He could win a Super Bowl if he was on a team with a better defense.

So where was I wrong? The defense was better this season and he won a Super Bowl.

Regardless, I don't recall you predicting a Saint's SB win in September.

The def IMO was no better at stopping people the only real difference was the ability to create turnovers that was the true area of improvement .....

so I guess perhaps on a technicality you are right but not totally ....

Turnovers kill and they created a bunch of them on Def ... making that unit look far better than it actually was ...

Imagine what a team such as the Steelers would be like if the guys in the secondary could make plays on the football and actually catch one now and again , statistically they would have been off the charts

[mojouw]

Brees did need some help from the defense to get over the hump and win a SB; but he is still a top 5 QB by any definition. Just for fun (no order intended) I figure these are the 10 best QB's in the league right now:

Brady - not a pre-injury dominant season but still one of the best
Manning - prior to the SB this was looking like a season for the ages
Brees - gets it done at an incredibly efficient rate
Rodgers - young gun on the rise who can take a hit and still get the ball out
Roethlisberger - no need to review him here
Rivers - posting huge numbers two seasons in a row
Romo - argue he chokes, but still belongs on this list just at the bottom part of it
McNabb - still effective to lethal
Favre (assuming he eventually comes back after tiring of mowing his lawn and convincing the Vikes to let him skip camp) - MVP caliber year
Warner - I know he is retired, but he is likely still better than anyone else. Based on this past year only, Schuab could be put here. But he only did it once.

Reading through the thread, I agree that P. Manning is over hyped (don't even get me started on Eli and the "Sanchize") and Ben is still under rated as a "pure" QB and not a defense driven game manager. I think the last SB and this season should finally put that to rest. But I don't think there can be any argument that Brees is one of the best in the league.

[Master Blaster]

I would like for Ben to adopt more of Brees' work ethic.

[mojouw]

I would like for Ben to adopt more of Brees' work ethic.

Very true. Ben has yet to appear to marry the athletic talent to the work ethic. If he ever does...

[gut]

Ben threw for 500 frickin yds in one game! Only like 8 or 9 QB's have done that in regulation. Speaks volumes about what he is capable of when fully turned loose.

He has to get a bit more consistent, but sometimes when he struggles the OL and WR's share plenty of blame. The casual fans and supposedly "professional" analysts don't get that. IND has a tremendous system and is great at finding receivers who fit. GB, MIN, ARI, NO and DAL are loaded with weapons. Schaub has Johnson and Brady has Moss. IMO, Ben is putting up numbers just as good as any of those guys with a little less around him, and don't get me started on Arians.

If Ben had better pass pro and an OC who didn't check out on Sundays his numbers could be sick, especially heading into his 7th season, a time Manning really made a pretty giant leap from numbers not all that different from Ben's to this point.